It seems to me that some time ago, ATF had a protocol for the decontamination of scene tools and a discussion of this was the basis for the inclusion of this 921 section.
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

NFPA 921-2014 17.4.2* Contamination During Collection. Most contamination of physical evidence occurs during its collection. This is especially true during the collection of liquid and solid accelerant evidence. The liquid and solid accelerant may be absorbed by the fire investigator’s gloves or may be transferred onto the collection tools and instruments. 17.4.2.2 An alternative metho
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

First of all, Yes, an area of origin can be your entire building. NFPA 921-2014 "18.8 Origin Insufficiently Defined. There are occasions when it is not possible to form a testable hypothesis defining an area that is useful for identifying potential causes. The goal of origin investigation is to identify the precise location where the fire began. In practice, the investigator has an o
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

FIRE INVESTIGATION ORIGIN DETERMINATION SURVEY Andrew T. Tinsley, PE, CFEI, CFII Eastern Kentucky University, USA and Gregory E. Gorbett, MScFPE, CFEI, IAAI-CFI, CFII, CFPS Eastern Kentucky University, USA ABSTRACT The fire investigation industry is considered to be lagging behind the rest of the forensic science fields in its assessment of the performance of methodological approaches a
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Frequently they are both wrong! Error rate 50-100%?
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GO CUBS GO!
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

An investigator who knows so little about fire dynamics as applied to fire investigation to not already know the answer to your original question, probably is not 1033 qualified.
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The answers to your two questions are: 1) Maybe and 2) Yes. See Doug's two last answers of 10/16. The answer to your main question is: Not necessary if you don't already know enough about fire dynamics that you have to ask."
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

BFIBFP!
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

Where in the wide world did the "investigator" get such a precise estimate of 1:14 or 1.2 or 1.45 for that matter. Such exact estimates cannot be substantiated by any known computational, or experiential experimental means. The "Red Flags" of "Bull Shit" are flying orver these data.
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

Fire Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The 223 is a hot/fast round and should have > penetrated through the floorboard. The muzzle > flash should not have ignited a sustained fire on > the carpet unless there was a lot of trash or > debris on floorboard. Can you point us to any peer reviewed research for these FIBFP opinions?
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

If someone discharged a .223 rifle round into the floor of a car there should be some physical evidence of a bullet strike.
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

It is not necessary to be a committee member to successfully participate in the drafting of the 921 document. Hundreds of your colleagues have done so. If you do not participate, any arguments about the sufficiency or accuracy of 921 don't bare much weight. Looking forward to written proposals to the 921 committee on these interesting issues. Light a candle or two, don't sit cur
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

You're right. Sometimes it can be difficult to figure out who is in charge. Generally, it is the guy standing at the fence telling you that you can't get in. NFPA 921-2014 29.3.1.1 Entity in Control. The interested party who has or represents ownership of the scene OR IS IN EFFECTIVE MANAGEMENT OF THE SITE, SCENE, OR EVIDENCE, AND IS ORGANIZING, DIRECTING, OR CONTROLLING THE J
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Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

You wrote: “The method to my madness…” I agree. This is reference from Shakespeare’s Hamlet when Polonius speaks to the king about Hamlet’s strange behavior. My answer to you is: while there may be a method to your madness, it is madness nonetheless. I direct you to Hamlet’s speech later in the play (Act 2 Scene 2): “I am but mad north-north-west. When the wind is southerly, I know a h
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

Most early FI books (circa. 1960-1980) contain many similar errors, including my father's and my early offerings. These report the contemporary thinking on fire investigation and "science" at the time. Unfortunately, these vintage books are still available to misinform the undiscriminating student. Perhaps, you should limit your list to those books written before 1992. Afte
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

J L Mazerat Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Where are we going wrong? Is there a problem with > the instruction material? Is there a problem with > the instruction? Is there a problem with the > students? Jim, Your first paragraph answers your concluding questions. In general, there is no problem with the instructional material (NFPA 921
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

Doug, Which state?
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

"A.1.3.7 Basic up-to-date information on these topics can be found in the current edition of NFPA 921. NFPA 921 is written on a basic level for competency in fire and explosion investigation and updated on a three-year cycle “to establish guidelines and recommendations for the safe and systematic investigation or analysis of fire and explosion incidents” and “is designed to prod
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ATF Special Agent Robert Elder said the agency is offering a $50,000 reward to help find the person who committed the crime, which was determined to be deliberate after "we ruled out all accidental and natural causes." But he could not say why someone would have set the fire.
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

No. The 1033 committee specifically rejected a proposal in the last cycle that in order to comply with 1033 the investigator has to have to have a bachelor's degree.
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Mark, No, the document couldn't be more clear, you need only be familiar with what is in 921 and the Fire Protection Handbook.
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

I haven't analyzed all of the data yet, but based upon the televised statement of the ATF agent in charge, this may be the most egregious example of negative corpus in recent memory. We have ruled all other possible causes, so this fire must be incendiary in classification (my paraphrase).
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

I fail to see why this so difficult for some to understand. NFPA 1033-2014 “1.3.7* The investigator shall have and maintain at a minimum an up-to-date basic knowledge of the following topics beyond the high school level: (1) Fire science (2) Fire chemistry (3) Thermodynamics (4) Thermometry (5) Fire dynamics (6) Explosion dynamics (7) Computer fire modeling (8) Fire investigation (
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The deadline for presentation abstracts has been extended to May 2, 2016. If you've ever considered participating in an International Symposium on Fire Investigation Science and Technology program as a presenter and delgate rather than only as a delegate, send in an abstract. If you abstract is approved (notification by May 15), you still have until August to complete and submit your fin
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

dcarpenter Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The "NFPA 1033 list," through the inclusion of > "fire science," implicitly expands the list to > include fluid dynamics and heat transfer, To say > that one has studied fire dynamics to include a > sufficient level of study of these prerequisite > knowledge areas of the &quo
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

You are correct, but so is John. NFPA 1033 requires knowledge of Fire dynamics, Fire science, etc. as presented in the 921 text. Neither does it require post secondary education to the advanced level that you have achieved. I direct you and others to Dr. Greg Gorbett and Jim Farr's excellent book.
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

The official NFPA 921 definition of fire dynamics is: "3.3.61* Fire Dynamics. The detailed study of how chemistry, fire science, and the engineering disciplines of fluid mechanics and heat transfer interact to influence fire behavior." This definition was written especially for inclusion in 921 with the direct input of Dougal Drysdale.
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations

Making decisions of the probability of ignition based solely on "reported" surface temperatures of incandescent light bulbs is a slippery slope. Temperature is not heat, only a symptom of it. There are hundreds of variables involved - almost too many to list. Many of the charts of bulb surface temperatures are based upon decades old charts published by Factory Mutual (produced wi
Forum: Fire/Arson Investigations