Fire/Arson Investigations : Fire/Arson Investigations
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What happens when you SAY you meet 1033 but don't
Posted by: John Lentini (IP Logged)
Date: July 14, 2022 03:19PM
This IAAI-CFI worked for the Indiana State Fire Marshal for 7 years.
When he saw where his deposition was leading, he stated,
“I am not a scientist. I have never been a scientist. A lot of these questions are scientific questions that are, you know, ... although I may have a basic understanding or I did have a basic understanding of them, you know. At this time, you know, I have not looked at any of these, nor as not being a scientist, memorized any of these things.”
Then came the "hard" questions:
Q. Okay. Would you agree that fire involves the release of energy?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you agree then that as a fire investigator, such as yourself, you
should understand the concepts of energy and power?
A. Yes.
Q. In the metric system, what are the basic units of energy?
A. I can’t provide that information.
Q. What is the difference between energy and power?
A. Without referring to my … my training and refresh, I will not be able to provide that information.
Q. You have no understanding of it as you’re sitting here today?
A. The tech ... answering a technical question, no.
Q. What are the basic units of power?
A. I don’t recall.
Q. What is radiant heat flux?
A. As I referred, without refreshing my memory, I would not be able to give the technical ... these technical definitions.
Q. You have no idea as you’re sitting here today?
A. I have a very faint memory of it. Something that I’ve not looked at in over a year and a half.
Q. How is radiant heat flux measured?
A. I would have to refer to 921.
Q. You don’t know sitting here?
A. No. As ... as I stated, I’ve not looked at any of this in a year and a half, maybe more or so. I believe August of 2019 is the last time I have looked at anything in this manner.
Q. What is the generally accepted value of radiant heat flux on a floor at the beginning of a flashover?
A. That’s a very technical question. It would have to be looked at (inaudible) research done to see what those kind of calculations are.
Q. You don’t know at all sitting here?
A. No. I have never memorized anything of that manner.
Q. What are the three modes of heat transfer?
A. Without refreshing my ... it’s on the tip of my tongue. I just ... without ... I’ve not looked at this. I know what they are. I just haven’t looked at them in so long. It’s just ... I can’t recall.
Q. Once a fire becomes fully involved, what is the principal mode of heat transfer?
A. I would have to refresh my memory on that.
The Judge was impressed, but not favorably.
ORDER 0N MOTION IN LIMINE
The Court having reviewed the Defendant’s Amended First Motion in Limine and applicable law now finds as follows:
The Defendant wishes to exclude the testimony of the following:
1. The expert testimony of Joshua Kreigh
2. Any testimony regarding the fire in question’s point of origin by experts
Joshua Kreigh and Timothy Murray.
Indiana Rule of Evidence 702 requires that in order for the testimony of an expert witness to be admissible at trial¨ the Court must be satisfied that the expert testimony is based upon reliable scientific principles.
The Court must further ascertain that an expert witness will:
1. Provide information to the jury that is beyond the knowledge of the average person and
2. The witness must have sufficient skill knowledge or experience so as to aid the jury
Defendant’s motion contains excerpts from the depositions of Mr. Kreigh and Mr. Murray to support his argument that the motion in limine should be granted.
The Court finds that the testimony presented at the depositions does not satisfy the requirements of Indiana Rule of 702. As such the witnesses would not be qualified to offer expert testimony at the trial in the cause.
THEREFORE Court now GRANTS defendant’s Motion Limine
SO ORDERED on this 1st day of September 2021.
Based on the exclusion of his experts, the prosecutor dismissed all charges.
When he saw where his deposition was leading, he stated,
“I am not a scientist. I have never been a scientist. A lot of these questions are scientific questions that are, you know, ... although I may have a basic understanding or I did have a basic understanding of them, you know. At this time, you know, I have not looked at any of these, nor as not being a scientist, memorized any of these things.”
Then came the "hard" questions:
Q. Okay. Would you agree that fire involves the release of energy?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you agree then that as a fire investigator, such as yourself, you
should understand the concepts of energy and power?
A. Yes.
Q. In the metric system, what are the basic units of energy?
A. I can’t provide that information.
Q. What is the difference between energy and power?
A. Without referring to my … my training and refresh, I will not be able to provide that information.
Q. You have no understanding of it as you’re sitting here today?
A. The tech ... answering a technical question, no.
Q. What are the basic units of power?
A. I don’t recall.
Q. What is radiant heat flux?
A. As I referred, without refreshing my memory, I would not be able to give the technical ... these technical definitions.
Q. You have no idea as you’re sitting here today?
A. I have a very faint memory of it. Something that I’ve not looked at in over a year and a half.
Q. How is radiant heat flux measured?
A. I would have to refer to 921.
Q. You don’t know sitting here?
A. No. As ... as I stated, I’ve not looked at any of this in a year and a half, maybe more or so. I believe August of 2019 is the last time I have looked at anything in this manner.
Q. What is the generally accepted value of radiant heat flux on a floor at the beginning of a flashover?
A. That’s a very technical question. It would have to be looked at (inaudible) research done to see what those kind of calculations are.
Q. You don’t know at all sitting here?
A. No. I have never memorized anything of that manner.
Q. What are the three modes of heat transfer?
A. Without refreshing my ... it’s on the tip of my tongue. I just ... without ... I’ve not looked at this. I know what they are. I just haven’t looked at them in so long. It’s just ... I can’t recall.
Q. Once a fire becomes fully involved, what is the principal mode of heat transfer?
A. I would have to refresh my memory on that.
The Judge was impressed, but not favorably.
ORDER 0N MOTION IN LIMINE
The Court having reviewed the Defendant’s Amended First Motion in Limine and applicable law now finds as follows:
The Defendant wishes to exclude the testimony of the following:
1. The expert testimony of Joshua Kreigh
2. Any testimony regarding the fire in question’s point of origin by experts
Joshua Kreigh and Timothy Murray.
Indiana Rule of Evidence 702 requires that in order for the testimony of an expert witness to be admissible at trial¨ the Court must be satisfied that the expert testimony is based upon reliable scientific principles.
The Court must further ascertain that an expert witness will:
1. Provide information to the jury that is beyond the knowledge of the average person and
2. The witness must have sufficient skill knowledge or experience so as to aid the jury
Defendant’s motion contains excerpts from the depositions of Mr. Kreigh and Mr. Murray to support his argument that the motion in limine should be granted.
The Court finds that the testimony presented at the depositions does not satisfy the requirements of Indiana Rule of 702. As such the witnesses would not be qualified to offer expert testimony at the trial in the cause.
THEREFORE Court now GRANTS defendant’s Motion Limine
SO ORDERED on this 1st day of September 2021.
Based on the exclusion of his experts, the prosecutor dismissed all charges.
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