Fire/Arson Investigations :  Fire/Arson Investigations The fastest message board... ever.
A place to ask questions and add to probative and informative discussions associated with the various aspects of the field of fire investigation. -- FORUM RULES---BE CIVIL AND NO NAME CALLING, NO BELITTLING, NO BERATING, NO DENIGRATING others. Postings in violation of these rules can be removed or editted to remove the offending remarks at the discretion of the moderators and/or site administrator. 
Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A
Posted by: ForensicEEnMD (IP Logged)
Date: July 16, 2007 03:26PM

As an Electrical Engineer I do not conduct fire investigations. I do cause analysis. I determine if an electrical system or device caused, or did not cause, a fire.

In the past I had insurance companies call me and say "We are certain this was an electrical fire and want you to go look at it by yourself". Which I happily did. Today I would never conduct a scene examination without a "Fire Investigator" present for all the reasons cited.

I have been attacked (even on this board) for not citing 921 as an authorative document. It is not a guide for electrical engineering and failure mode analysis. Read 14.5. I have been conducting failure analysis for fire, shock and safety of military, industrial and consumer products for over 20 years. I dare say there are few, if any, UL engineers that have ever heard of 921. Does that mean they are incompetent to evaluate the electrical products surrounding you right now for fire causation? However, their's is some of the best suited training around for electrical fire causation. So no, 921 or 1033 are not authoratative to my profession. Conversly, I believe that NFPA 70 is not an authoratative document for CFI's either. Does that mean I feel EE's working with fires should not be very familiar with 921? Of course they should. Just like I feel that CFI's should be familiar with 70.

I work for the fire investigator as a technical consultant. I do not call the fire. Neither do the chemists that analyze the debris samples. They do not need to call 921 or 1003 authoritative either.

To say an electrical event had the potential to cause a fire has to be coupled with a first fuel ignigted (outside the event), location within the area of origin, etc. These parameters are not defined by the EE, but by the CFI. A CFI accepts, or heaven forbid smiling smiley, rejects my findings to make their call.

Disclaimer, my opionion, as well as my spelling, is mine alone. Any concurrence will be undertaken at your own peril. The beatings will continue until all have abandoned ship.



Subject Views Written By Posted
  Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 1892 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 07/07/2007 01:34AM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 1009 FM-12 07/07/2007 01:23PM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 1131 Hunter B. (Terry) Lacy 07/07/2007 09:48PM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 1024 PMK140 07/08/2007 07:17AM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 968 PMK140 07/08/2007 07:23AM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 990 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 07/08/2007 11:23AM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 963 PMK140 07/08/2007 01:30PM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 919 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 07/09/2007 02:03AM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 933 PMK140 07/09/2007 07:46AM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 1014 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 07/09/2007 05:23PM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 834 PMK140 07/09/2007 08:14PM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 837 Hunter B. (Terry) Lacy 07/10/2007 11:09AM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 909 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 07/10/2007 11:39AM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 855 Hunter B. (Terry) Lacy 07/10/2007 12:32PM
  Re: Licensing Agency Contacts 862 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 07/10/2007 01:02PM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 843 Jonathan Squires 07/16/2007 09:01AM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 842 Hunter B. (Terry) Lacy 07/16/2007 09:19AM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 818 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 07/16/2007 11:21PM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 859 Jonathan Squires 07/18/2007 08:01AM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 879 John J. Lentini, CFEI 07/18/2007 10:31AM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 796 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 07/18/2007 06:00PM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 822 Jonathan Squires 07/26/2007 06:35AM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 780 Hunter B. (Terry) Lacy 07/26/2007 07:48AM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 775 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 07/26/2007 02:20PM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 906 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 07/10/2007 01:15PM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 990 Hunter B. (Terry) Lacy 07/10/2007 09:47AM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 930 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 07/10/2007 11:02AM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 905 PMK140 07/09/2007 08:02AM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 893 thattwick 07/09/2007 02:59PM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 900 ForensicEEnMD 07/16/2007 03:26PM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 825 MIJ 07/16/2007 09:25PM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 829 ForensicEEnMD 07/17/2007 07:52AM
  Re: Really - How Many People Use 1033 - Q&A 860 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 07/18/2007 01:58AM


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.