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Re: 921 & arson
Posted by: J L Mazerat (IP Logged)
Date: March 29, 2022 01:57PM

I do not think he is against 921as a reference or guide. What concerns him and many others is how it is applied. Those that try to say it is mandatory to follow what is in the document and there is no exception has caused the reluctance to accept the document. He was trying to say about the scientific method is that the conclusion reached based on its use is still not an absolute finding because with science there is no absolutes. Without it being an absolute is it truly beyond a reasonable doubt. One thing that is hurt 921 is the fact that they no longer believe in the process of elimination. If you really look at it the scientific method is the process of elimination. Even though you may not have an absolute conclusion, you do have a conclusion based on a methodology that was designed to reach the best conclusion possible. Here it comes down to a better explanation needed in 921 is to have the scientific method that is listed in the document enables the investigator to reach a conclusion that also meets the requirements of the courts for beyond a reasonable doubt. There is no doubt that is properly apply the scientific method it gives you a reliable determination. So here the document needs to have an area explaining how one equals the other.

It is not harder to determine incendiary fire. What has changed is what evidence is available. The old myths that were challenged by 921 in the beginning where to explain to the investigator why these myths were incorrect and should not be used in the evaluation process. Everyone says by removing these myths it made determinations harder than I guess I did.

If one needs to identify the first fuel ignited in the source of ignition, I agree that it makes it almost impossible to identify the causes of most fires. There are some cases where this is possible, but I would say the majority of the cases this is never done. Did destruction caused by the fire and all the dead consumes makes it difficult to pinpoint an exact fuel. Most cases there is multiple fuels. One may be able to determine a competent source of ignition in an area but because of the destruction does not know specifically what fuel that was that was the first to ignite. Under these conditions you can still develop a cause for the fire. If one must determine a specific fuel as being the first one ignite it to be able to make a determination as to the cause of the fire then I will question the accuracy of a large number of determinations being made through the use of the scientific method.

Jim Mazerat
Forensic Investigations Group



Subject Views Written By Posted
  921 & arson 492 rdzimm 03/24/2022 06:43PM
  Re: 921 & arson 292 J L Mazerat 03/25/2022 12:15PM
  Re: 921 & arson 274 rdzimm 03/25/2022 02:01PM
  Re: 921 & arson 276 J L Mazerat 03/26/2022 08:37AM
  Re: 921 & arson 267 rdzimm 03/27/2022 12:33AM
  Re: 921 & arson 270 J L Mazerat 03/27/2022 09:36AM
  Re: 921 & arson 307 J L Mazerat 03/27/2022 10:05AM
  Re: 921 & arson 258 rdzimm 03/27/2022 07:11PM
  Re: 921 & arson 258 rdzimm 03/28/2022 11:00AM
  Re: 921 & arson 316 dcarpenter 03/29/2022 08:21AM
  Re: 921 & arson 258 dcarpenter 03/29/2022 08:30AM
  Re: 921 & arson 239 rdzimm 04/01/2022 07:44PM
  Re: 921 & arson 245 J L Mazerat 04/02/2022 09:43AM
  Re: 921 & arson 245 rdzimm 04/02/2022 04:18PM
  Re: 921 & arson 265 J L Mazerat 03/29/2022 01:57PM
  Re: 921 & arson 261 dcarpenter 03/29/2022 03:42PM
  Re: 921 & arson 251 dcarpenter 03/29/2022 03:49PM
  Re: 921 & arson 248 J L Mazerat 03/30/2022 07:45AM
  Re: 921 & arson 249 dcarpenter 03/30/2022 08:57AM
  Re: 921 & arson 248 J L Mazerat 03/30/2022 05:23PM
  Re: 921 & arson 242 dcarpenter 03/30/2022 10:33PM
  Re: 921 & arson 248 J L Mazerat 03/31/2022 08:32AM
  Re: 921 & arson 233 dcarpenter 04/01/2022 09:03AM
  Re: 921 & arson 255 J L Mazerat 04/01/2022 09:49AM
  Re: 921 & arson 248 dcarpenter 04/01/2022 11:21AM
  Re: 921 & arson 245 J L Mazerat 04/01/2022 03:30PM
  Re: 921 & arson 230 dcarpenter 04/03/2022 04:35PM
  Re: 921 & arson 234 J L Mazerat 04/03/2022 05:34PM
  Re: 921 & arson 235 dcarpenter 04/04/2022 01:18PM
  Re: 921 & arson 234 J L Mazerat 04/04/2022 03:26PM
  Re: 921 & arson 241 J L Mazerat 04/04/2022 05:27PM
  Re: 921 & arson 237 J L Mazerat 04/04/2022 06:55PM
  Re: 921 & arson 231 John Lentini 04/07/2022 12:59PM
  Re: 921 & arson 250 J L Mazerat 03/30/2022 07:35AM
  Re: 921 & arson 247 dcarpenter 03/30/2022 08:36AM
  Re: 921 & arson 237 J L Mazerat 03/30/2022 08:06PM
  Re: 921 & arson 236 dcarpenter 03/30/2022 10:48PM
  Re: 921 & arson 243 J L Mazerat 03/30/2022 08:14PM
  Re: 921 & arson 243 dcarpenter 03/30/2022 10:58PM
  Re: 921 & arson 246 J L Mazerat 03/31/2022 08:04AM
  Re: 921 & arson 242 dcarpenter 04/01/2022 09:17AM
  Re: 921 & arson 244 J L Mazerat 04/01/2022 10:17AM
  Re: 921 & arson 269 dcarpenter 04/01/2022 02:15PM
  Re: 921 & arson 244 J L Mazerat 04/01/2022 03:49PM
  Re: 921 & arson 236 dcarpenter 04/03/2022 04:39PM
  Re: 921 & arson 224 J L Mazerat 04/03/2022 05:54PM
  Re: 921 & arson 240 rdzimm 04/03/2022 09:16PM
  Re: 921 & arson 239 J L Mazerat 04/04/2022 07:46AM
  Re: 921 & arson 235 rdzimm 04/04/2022 08:32AM
  Re: 921 & arson 234 dcarpenter 04/04/2022 01:23PM
  Re: 921 & arson 235 J L Mazerat 04/04/2022 03:36PM
  Re: 921 & arson 241 dcarpenter 04/04/2022 07:12PM
  Re: 921 & arson 250 J L Mazerat 04/05/2022 10:03AM
  Re: 921 & arson 291 rdzimm 04/01/2022 07:39PM
  Re: 921 & arson 240 J L Mazerat 04/02/2022 11:37AM
  Re: 921 & arson 248 rdzimm 04/02/2022 04:57PM
  Re: 921 & arson 247 J L Mazerat 04/02/2022 05:59PM
  Re: 921 & arson 246 rdzimm 04/03/2022 10:25AM
  Re: 921 & arson 242 rdzimm 04/06/2022 11:31PM


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