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Re: 921 & arson
Posted by: dcarpenter (IP Logged)
Date: April 01, 2022 02:15PM

"If an investigator can never say that of the hypotheses considered one is believed to be correct based on the fact it could not be disproved using all the data available than what is the purpose of the investigation."

You left out an important condition. That is, not disproved AND uniquely consistent with the available evidence.

"If I am sitting on a jury as a person that has not specific knowledge about fire investigation, and you tell me you can never prove a hypothesis to be correct you have just lost me. My question would be why you made me sit through your testimony if you cannot tell me which hypothesis is correct. According to science you may be correct, but you are just waisted my time. If I’m already with the opinion that I did not want to be on the jury, you are saying that you cannot say which of the hypotheses is correct will aggravate me more. From there I will just discount what you have to say."

Sometimes your job as an expert testifying in court is to explain how science works, what it can and cannot do, what is the goal, what is reliability, and how did you apply the SM in a reliable manner? As an expert, you should know that the concept of science is somewhat foreign to juries or the layperson is ignorant of such. You need to educate the jury as opposed to compensate your testimony to meet their ignorance. Most of the time, you are educating your client/lawyer on these issues, but it still may need to be addressed in your trial testimony.

"As the person sitting on the jury there are only two possibilities. The first is you know what happened or the second is you do not know. You may say your profession has four outcomes, but all I what to know is which of your hypothesis is correct to explain what took place..."

It is not the profession that has four outcomes, it is the application of the SM that has four outcomes, as previously described. Science cannot tell you that your are "correct." That is why reliability is so critical. As an expert you should have to describe how you arrived at your determination by application of the SM.

"If you say most reliable, then I want to hear about the others you consider reliable."

Certainly. You can walk through your application of the SM in a specific incident and how you used the available evidence.This can be done with your client, your expert report, and/or deposition and trial testimony.

"If you say there are none that are reliable, then I want to know why you used the term “most reliable”."

Not sure I have ever said that "none are reliable." None [hypotheses] may be uniquely consistent with the available evidence Valid hypotheses (formulated with evidence) that cannot be disproved (with additional evidence) are still reliable (use of evidence, rather than lack of evidence, which is unreliable). It is the final determination that is the most reliable. "Undetermined" can also be the most reliable determination that can be made with the available evidence.

Douglas J. Carpenter, MScFPE, CFEI, PE, FSFPE
Vice President & Principal Engineer
Combustion Science & Engineering, Inc.
8940 Old Annapolis Road, Suite L
Columbia, MD 21045
(410) 884-3266
(410) 884-3267 (fax)
www.csefire.com



Subject Views Written By Posted
  921 & arson 492 rdzimm 03/24/2022 06:43PM
  Re: 921 & arson 293 J L Mazerat 03/25/2022 12:15PM
  Re: 921 & arson 275 rdzimm 03/25/2022 02:01PM
  Re: 921 & arson 277 J L Mazerat 03/26/2022 08:37AM
  Re: 921 & arson 268 rdzimm 03/27/2022 12:33AM
  Re: 921 & arson 271 J L Mazerat 03/27/2022 09:36AM
  Re: 921 & arson 307 J L Mazerat 03/27/2022 10:05AM
  Re: 921 & arson 259 rdzimm 03/27/2022 07:11PM
  Re: 921 & arson 258 rdzimm 03/28/2022 11:00AM
  Re: 921 & arson 316 dcarpenter 03/29/2022 08:21AM
  Re: 921 & arson 259 dcarpenter 03/29/2022 08:30AM
  Re: 921 & arson 239 rdzimm 04/01/2022 07:44PM
  Re: 921 & arson 245 J L Mazerat 04/02/2022 09:43AM
  Re: 921 & arson 245 rdzimm 04/02/2022 04:18PM
  Re: 921 & arson 266 J L Mazerat 03/29/2022 01:57PM
  Re: 921 & arson 262 dcarpenter 03/29/2022 03:42PM
  Re: 921 & arson 252 dcarpenter 03/29/2022 03:49PM
  Re: 921 & arson 249 J L Mazerat 03/30/2022 07:45AM
  Re: 921 & arson 250 dcarpenter 03/30/2022 08:57AM
  Re: 921 & arson 249 J L Mazerat 03/30/2022 05:23PM
  Re: 921 & arson 243 dcarpenter 03/30/2022 10:33PM
  Re: 921 & arson 249 J L Mazerat 03/31/2022 08:32AM
  Re: 921 & arson 234 dcarpenter 04/01/2022 09:03AM
  Re: 921 & arson 256 J L Mazerat 04/01/2022 09:49AM
  Re: 921 & arson 249 dcarpenter 04/01/2022 11:21AM
  Re: 921 & arson 246 J L Mazerat 04/01/2022 03:30PM
  Re: 921 & arson 231 dcarpenter 04/03/2022 04:35PM
  Re: 921 & arson 234 J L Mazerat 04/03/2022 05:34PM
  Re: 921 & arson 236 dcarpenter 04/04/2022 01:18PM
  Re: 921 & arson 234 J L Mazerat 04/04/2022 03:26PM
  Re: 921 & arson 241 J L Mazerat 04/04/2022 05:27PM
  Re: 921 & arson 238 J L Mazerat 04/04/2022 06:55PM
  Re: 921 & arson 232 John Lentini 04/07/2022 12:59PM
  Re: 921 & arson 251 J L Mazerat 03/30/2022 07:35AM
  Re: 921 & arson 248 dcarpenter 03/30/2022 08:36AM
  Re: 921 & arson 238 J L Mazerat 03/30/2022 08:06PM
  Re: 921 & arson 237 dcarpenter 03/30/2022 10:48PM
  Re: 921 & arson 244 J L Mazerat 03/30/2022 08:14PM
  Re: 921 & arson 244 dcarpenter 03/30/2022 10:58PM
  Re: 921 & arson 247 J L Mazerat 03/31/2022 08:04AM
  Re: 921 & arson 243 dcarpenter 04/01/2022 09:17AM
  Re: 921 & arson 244 J L Mazerat 04/01/2022 10:17AM
  Re: 921 & arson 269 dcarpenter 04/01/2022 02:15PM
  Re: 921 & arson 245 J L Mazerat 04/01/2022 03:49PM
  Re: 921 & arson 237 dcarpenter 04/03/2022 04:39PM
  Re: 921 & arson 225 J L Mazerat 04/03/2022 05:54PM
  Re: 921 & arson 241 rdzimm 04/03/2022 09:16PM
  Re: 921 & arson 239 J L Mazerat 04/04/2022 07:46AM
  Re: 921 & arson 236 rdzimm 04/04/2022 08:32AM
  Re: 921 & arson 235 dcarpenter 04/04/2022 01:23PM
  Re: 921 & arson 236 J L Mazerat 04/04/2022 03:36PM
  Re: 921 & arson 242 dcarpenter 04/04/2022 07:12PM
  Re: 921 & arson 251 J L Mazerat 04/05/2022 10:03AM
  Re: 921 & arson 292 rdzimm 04/01/2022 07:39PM
  Re: 921 & arson 241 J L Mazerat 04/02/2022 11:37AM
  Re: 921 & arson 249 rdzimm 04/02/2022 04:57PM
  Re: 921 & arson 248 J L Mazerat 04/02/2022 05:59PM
  Re: 921 & arson 246 rdzimm 04/03/2022 10:25AM
  Re: 921 & arson 243 rdzimm 04/06/2022 11:31PM


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