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Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
Posted by:
Jim Mazerat (IP Logged)
Date: October 19, 2006 11:27AM
I understand your concern as to the quality of the profession, but the wording “A uniform directive” given the perception of something that is mandatory and the investigator is not allowed to stray from the information in this document. I may be having a problem here in the interpretation of your words. Are you talking about a document that tell the investigator, he or she must follow each step outline for it to be an accepted investigation or that the investigator cannot disagree with the general conclusions reached in the text. I think the document itself address much of these items in Chapter 1.
I am sure you understand the legal implications of using the word”Standard”. This is my reason to be conservative on this subject. If you bought a product from me and with the product I included a disclaimer saying you can not rely on the instructions attached to the product because they may not be complete or correct, what would you say about my product? You can call the document what ever you like for yourself but you are suggesting imposing your values on others that may have disagreement with the information contained in the document, is that fare. How would you address the fact that there may be information that is not correct in the document, would you require an investigator to use what he or she knows is incorrect information.
The chair person of 921 stated in an article that the interpretations of fire patterns are subjective, and at the same time the research conducted at NIST has verified the comments made by this person. When it comes to pattern interpretation, there is no absolute at this time. If you want to believe that fire investigations is a pure science than that is up to you. I feel we are leaning more to science but if one can not exactly replicate an event than I quest it being pure science.
Using Pat and John is a good example if you are suggesting a standard that does not allow deviation. By far these are not the only two that have been involved in research but I just used them as an example. What is there was a standard and they were not allowed to venture out and challenge the conventional wisdom where would we be today.
What is a rouge investigator? Is that a person with a different opinion? I have heard that term used to identify many of the persons that post on this board from time to time.
Leave me ask you a question. Do you believe if there was a vote taken of all the fire investigator in the United States that they would vote in favor of NFPA 921 becoming any type of standard?
You seem to be very passionate in your concerns about the quality of investigation and for this I applaud you.
National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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John J. Lentini, CFEI |
10/11/2006 11:20AM |
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MIJ |
10/13/2006 02:57PM |
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PMK140 |
10/14/2006 06:30AM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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Tony La Palio |
10/16/2006 01:45PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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MIJ |
10/16/2006 03:24PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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PMK140 |
10/16/2006 07:10PM |
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MIJ |
10/16/2006 08:17PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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Jim Mazerat |
10/18/2006 10:30AM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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Ray C. Davis, Fire Loss Expert |
10/17/2006 12:23PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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MIJ |
10/17/2006 01:13PM |
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PMK140 |
10/17/2006 01:15PM |
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ttijerina |
10/17/2006 01:42PM |
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PMK140 |
10/17/2006 02:03PM |
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MIJ |
10/17/2006 02:21PM |
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Ray C. Davis, Fire Loss Expert |
10/17/2006 02:42PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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Ray C. Davis, Fire Loss Expert |
10/17/2006 02:54PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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PMK140 |
10/17/2006 03:12PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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Ray C. Davis, Fire Loss Expert |
10/17/2006 03:38PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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PMK140 |
10/17/2006 02:56PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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Ray C. Davis, Fire Loss Expert |
10/17/2006 03:42PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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PMK140 |
10/17/2006 04:24PM |
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PMK140 |
10/17/2006 02:48PM |
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MIJ |
10/17/2006 05:25PM |
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MIJ |
10/17/2006 05:39PM |
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PMK140 |
10/17/2006 06:03PM |
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PMK140 |
10/17/2006 06:07PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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Ray C. Davis, Fire Loss Expert |
10/17/2006 06:16PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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PMK140 |
10/17/2006 06:26PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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Ray C. Davis, Fire Loss Expert |
10/17/2006 06:13PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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PMK140 |
10/17/2006 06:20PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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MIJ |
10/17/2006 06:26PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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Ray C. Davis, Fire Loss Expert |
10/17/2006 06:50PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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Ray C. Davis, Fire Loss Expert |
10/17/2006 06:53PM |
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PMK140 |
10/17/2006 07:08PM |
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MIJ |
10/17/2006 07:13PM |
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ttijerina |
10/18/2006 06:02AM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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John J. Lentini, CFEI |
10/18/2006 08:06AM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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firecop5002 |
10/18/2006 11:00PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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PMK140 |
10/19/2006 07:41AM |
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firecop5002 |
10/19/2006 10:54AM |
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PMK140 |
10/19/2006 11:19AM |
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John J. Lentini, CFEI |
10/19/2006 08:59AM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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Jim Mazerat |
10/19/2006 10:57AM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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ttijerina |
10/20/2006 05:20AM |
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Adam Holloway |
10/17/2006 07:05PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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Ray C. Davis, Fire Loss Expert |
10/18/2006 08:21AM |
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Adam Holloway |
10/18/2006 08:58AM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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Ray C. Davis, Fire Loss Expert |
10/18/2006 11:55AM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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Adam Holloway |
10/18/2006 12:19PM |
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MIJ |
10/18/2006 12:23PM |
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MIJ |
10/18/2006 12:47PM |
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MIJ |
10/18/2006 09:12AM |
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MIJ |
10/18/2006 09:27AM |
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RCox |
10/18/2006 09:51AM |
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MIJ |
10/18/2006 10:11AM |
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MIJ |
10/17/2006 07:06PM |
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Jim Mazerat |
10/18/2006 10:24AM |
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MIJ |
10/18/2006 10:56AM |
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Jim Mazerat |
10/18/2006 11:44AM |
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MIJ |
10/18/2006 12:34PM |
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MIJ |
10/18/2006 01:08PM |
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Jim Mazerat |
10/18/2006 01:40PM |
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MIJ |
10/18/2006 02:17PM |
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Jim Mazerat |
10/18/2006 05:35PM |
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MIJ |
10/18/2006 05:53PM |
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Jim Mazerat |
10/18/2006 08:58PM |
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MIJ |
10/18/2006 11:09PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM |
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Jim Mazerat |
10/19/2006 11:27AM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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MIJ |
10/19/2006 12:23PM |
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Jim Mazerat |
10/19/2006 01:18PM |
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dahebert |
10/19/2006 03:20PM |
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MIJ |
10/18/2006 02:19PM |
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Jim Mazerat |
10/18/2006 01:53PM |
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ssklar |
10/19/2006 03:30PM |
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ssklar |
10/19/2006 03:44PM |
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MIJ |
10/19/2006 11:01PM |
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Jim Mazerat |
10/18/2006 10:43AM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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dahebert |
10/19/2006 03:22PM |
Re: National Geographic: Forensics under fire 10/12 at 10PM
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MIKE |
10/19/2006 04:47PM |