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Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis.
Posted by: SJAvato (IP Logged)
Date: January 22, 2007 12:51PM

This type of debate is exactly what fire investigation needs. It brings to light the complex "philosophical" issues that are often more important (and complex) than even pattern analysis can be (plus I love a good philosophical discussion.) So here are just a few of my thoughts:

1) Daubert specifically states that the decision was not meant to exclude opposing or alternate interpretations provided that a proper methodology was applied.

2) Peer review is clearly an important technique to use to insure that our ideas, conclusions and methodologies are, at least, acceptable and plausible (if not correct.) Peer review is used as a "test" by every reputable scientific journal prior to publication. The Daubert evaluation methods include an evaluation of whether the ideas are generally accepted and/or peer reviewed. (I realize that the Court may be referring to a more stringent peer review than a fire investigator may subject his/her report to, but still it is recognized as a legitimate test of general validity.) In presenting my report to peers, am I not opening it up to a cognitive evaluation based not only on my experience, training and knowledge of current science and literature, but to my peer's as well? (In effect a cognitive evaluation force multiplier) If done correctly, this keeps my opinions from becoming too inbred, exposes weaknesses or inaccuracies in my data interpretation or methodologies and prepares me for the rigors of a cross-examination on my report. In my experience, my toughest critics have been my peers. Also, it should be noted that history is full of wrong, but generally accepted theories and ideas, and that some great scientific concepts were rejected for publication after initial peer review. ( I read that Hans Krebs’s description of the citric acid cycle was initially rejected for publication. That was before he got the Nobel Prize for the same work that his peers initially rejected. Frankly, I wish it had stayed rejected, I could never get the damn thing right!)

3) Some of this discussion has been raging in the "real science" community for years. It is a demarcation issue. How do you separate what is science and scientific from what is pseudoscience or merely has a scientific patina? How do you make the rules loose enough to allow new ideas and concepts, but exclude implausible and unrealistic thinking? Karl Popper believed that the hallmark of science was its falsifiability, or at least that a hypothesis can be set up to be falsified. But failed experiments do not necessarily equate to a non-scientific or implausible hypothesis. We could discuss the ideas of deterministic versus probabilistic evaluations, but I'll save that. The point (if, in fact, I have one) is that issues such as; how are hypotheses adequately tested, what constitutes proof of a concept, how is data properly interpreted? are all issues that science grapples with. It is not just fire investigation that asks these questions.

4) The selective evaluation of certain data is a double-edged sword. As has been discussed previously, one piece of data can be the key to an entire analysis or investigation. In other cases, the focus on a single item, to the exclusion of all others, can lead to serious errors. What you think is important at a scene may be different than what I think is important. This (I think) is the basis of our adversarial system. I base my conclusion on the same data as you, but we come up with different answers because there is no single way to interpret the data. This is not just my opinion. Thomas Kuhn in "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" said that "Philosophers of science have repeatedly demonstrated that more than one theoretical construction can always be placed upon a given collection of data." If we think that following NFPA 921 or a "scientific method" will always result in investigators coming to the same conclusion (presumably the "TRUE" one), we are, at best, being overly optimistic and at worst, deluding ourselves. (Just as an academic aside, it is interesting to see the contrast between Popper and Kuhn's ideas of the "is's" verses the "ought's" of science) Bottom line - the interpretation of available data will always be a potential source of investigator dissonance. Who's right and who's wrong will depend on a totality of circumstances and or decided by a "fact finder" (who could also be wrong.)



Steve



Subject Views Written By Posted
  Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 2249 Russaus 01/11/2007 08:08AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1315 cda 01/11/2007 08:38AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1240 Russaus 01/11/2007 08:49AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1218 cda 01/11/2007 10:05AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1316 dcarpenter 01/11/2007 11:38AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1238 greggorbett 01/12/2007 02:58AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1232 dsmith 01/21/2007 03:47PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1256 Jim Mazerat 01/21/2007 07:17PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1312 Gerald Hurst 01/21/2007 09:30PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1129 MIJ 01/21/2007 10:28PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1043 Jim Mazerat 01/22/2007 12:12PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1217 Gerald Hurst 01/22/2007 01:41PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1180 Jim Mazerat 01/22/2007 02:36PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1106 Gerald Hurst 01/22/2007 04:15PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1052 MIJ 01/22/2007 04:17PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1188 Gerald Hurst 01/22/2007 04:35PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1113 MIJ 01/22/2007 05:36PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1137 Jim Mazerat 01/22/2007 06:36PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1070 Jim Mazerat 01/22/2007 06:05PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1199 MIKE 01/22/2007 07:55PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1239 Jim Mazerat 01/22/2007 06:12PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1054 MIJ 01/22/2007 11:33PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1062 Jim Mazerat 01/23/2007 10:31AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1163 PMK140 01/11/2007 11:35AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1220 dcarpenter 01/11/2007 11:15AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1247 dcarpenter 01/11/2007 11:13AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1053 cda 01/11/2007 12:12PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1300 dcarpenter 01/11/2007 01:14PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1135 dcarpenter 01/11/2007 10:39AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1281 Gerald Hurst 01/11/2007 11:21AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1135 PMK140 01/11/2007 11:41AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1081 cda 01/12/2007 03:00AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1108 MIJ 01/12/2007 07:02AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1100 cda 01/12/2007 08:17AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1164 MIJ 01/12/2007 09:02AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1154 MIJ 01/12/2007 09:07AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1077 Jim Mazerat 01/17/2007 11:48AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1304 dsmith 01/21/2007 04:14PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1220 Jim Mazerat 01/21/2007 07:34PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1139 SJAvato 01/22/2007 12:51PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1049 MIJ 01/22/2007 02:06PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 972 Jim Mazerat 01/22/2007 02:53PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1025 cda 01/12/2007 08:20AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1201 MIJ 01/12/2007 09:30AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1091 cda 01/12/2007 09:54AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1128 MIJ 01/12/2007 10:00AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1237 Jim Mazerat 01/12/2007 10:26AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1304 The Oracle 01/16/2007 07:02AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1223 dsmith 01/21/2007 03:40PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1233 Jim Mazerat 01/21/2007 07:41PM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1224 Tim Pullen 01/16/2007 08:40AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1200 MIJ 01/16/2007 10:06AM
  Re: Back to basics – testing your hypothesis. 1094 Jim Mazerat 01/17/2007 06:33AM
  Re: Back to basics –MIJ: Please give it a rest 1302 John J. Lentini, CFEI 01/17/2007 07:42AM
  Re: Back to basics –MIJ: Please give it a rest 1189 MIJ 01/17/2007 10:10AM
  Re: Back to basics –MIJ: Please give it a rest 1210 Jim Mazerat 01/17/2007 11:54AM
  Re: Back to basics –MIJ: Please give it a rest 1140 MIJ 01/17/2007 03:52PM
  Re: Back to basics –MIJ: Please give it a rest 1244 Jim Mazerat 01/17/2007 04:31PM
  Re: Back to basics Still can't rest 1151 MIJ 01/17/2007 06:20PM
  Re: Back to basics Still can't rest 1284 Jim Mazerat 01/18/2007 10:32AM
  Re: Back to basics - grammar police 1247 jmorse 01/21/2007 03:45PM
  Re: Back to basics - grammar police 1042 Jim Mazerat 01/21/2007 07:18PM
  Re: Testing a hypothesis 1131 Jim Mazerat 01/22/2007 12:20PM
  Re: Testing a hypothesis 1253 SJAvato 01/22/2007 12:56PM
  Re: Testing a hypothesis 1071 Jim Mazerat 01/22/2007 12:58PM
  Re: Testing a hypothesis 1162 MIJ 01/22/2007 02:23PM
  Re: Testing a hypothesis 1098 Jim Mazerat 01/22/2007 02:46PM


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