Fire/Arson Investigations :  Fire/Arson Investigations The fastest message board... ever.
A place to ask questions and add to probative and informative discussions associated with the various aspects of the field of fire investigation. -- FORUM RULES---BE CIVIL AND NO NAME CALLING, NO BELITTLING, NO BERATING, NO DENIGRATING others. Postings in violation of these rules can be removed or editted to remove the offending remarks at the discretion of the moderators and/or site administrator. 
Re: Scientific Method
Posted by: dcarpenter (IP Logged)
Date: July 01, 2022 02:12PM

"The "scientific method" is not linear, but it is iterative."

No disagreement.

"Data becomes "evidence" when it goes to either support or refute a hypothesis. Data gets meaning in the context of the fire when evaluated against a hypothesis; otherwise, data is data. For example - "The fire alarm activated at 1 am" is data that, in and of itself, only means that an alarm activated at 1 am. When evaluated against the fact that a fire occurred and the hypothesis "The fire started around 1 am" - the alarm data is now evidence that supports the hypothesis. (If there was no fire, the data may go to support a hypothesis that the alarm system is faulty.)"

DATA is INFORMATION that can be documented and verified. EVIDENCE is DATA that is deemed relevant and reliable in a specific context. So, again, no disagreement.

"Hypotheses do not need to be based on evidence. (Your FINAL hypothesis should be based on evidence that supports the hypothesis - after consideration of data that potentially refutes the hypothesis.) A hypothesis can be any statement related to the incident and will either be supported by data or not. The hypothesis is only a statement against which to evaluate data or to guide further action."

The reliable application of the SM requires evidence, not the lack of evidence. So let's take your application that hypotheses do not require any evidence to be developed or formulated, but your FINAL hypothesis must be able to withstand challenges to the evidence to be refuted (with evidence). So if one can develop or formulate hypotheses based on no evidence, then is there not an infinite number of hypotheses that I can generate that need to be disproved or "eliminated" to arrive at a FINAL hypothesis? Is this not a negative corpus methodology?

If we use "hypothesis" to mean that you are CONSIDERING possible hypotheses (i.e., inductive reasoning to analyze the data) that explain what happened based on your education, knowledge, skill, and experience (then look for data that can be used as evidence to FORMULATE a hypothesis) and we use "valid hypothesis" to mean a hypothesis that was FORMULATED with evidence derived from the incident (i.e., deductive reasoning), then it would seem we are applying the same methodology.

"I don't believe there are "invalid" hypotheses when the hypothesis suggests a known or potential cause or origin of a fire; only those that are either supported or refuted within the context of a particular incident. I can hypothesize that the fire originated in the basement of a structure. I can make that hypothesis before I even arrive on the scene, because, based on my knowledge, training and experience, fires sometimes start in basements. If I arrive at the scene and there is no basement or no evidence of fire origin or causality in the basement, the hypothesis fails and we move on to other hypotheses - it wasn't an "invalid" hypothesis, only an unsupported one and becomes useful (assuming there is a basement) in attempting to falsify the hypothesis that the fire originated on the second floor (as a fire in the basement would, potentially, falsify the second floor origin hypothesis) and in refuting confirmation or expectation bias."

The reliable application of the SM does include a step where one considers hypotheses, based on your education, knowledge, skill, and experience to explain what could have happened. It does not have to be based on evidence at this step of the methodology. The following step involves the FORMULATION of a hypothesis to explain what most reliably happened in this specific incident. The FORMULATION produces a valid hypothesis that is based on specific evidence in this specific incident. The ultimate outcome of the reliable application of the SM is not what could have happened (i.e., product of inductive reasoning), but the most reliable explanation of what did happen based on the available evidence. The reliability comes from the use of evidence within the reliable application of the SM. The use of inductive and deductive reasoning produces a "hypothesis" and a "valid hypothesis" in one iteration of the SM.

Douglas J. Carpenter, MScFPE, CFEI, PE, FSFPE
Vice President & Principal Engineer
Combustion Science & Engineering, Inc.
8940 Old Annapolis Road, Suite L
Columbia, MD 21045
(410) 884-3266
(410) 884-3267 (fax)
www.csefire.com



Subject Views Written By Posted
  Scientific Method 624 rdzimm 04/05/2022 12:11AM
  Re: Scientific Method 398 Rsuninv 04/05/2022 08:39AM
  Re: Scientific Method 342 J L Mazerat 04/05/2022 09:42AM
  Re: Scientific Method 312 dcarpenter 04/26/2022 07:02PM
  Re: Scientific Method 327 J L Mazerat 04/27/2022 08:37AM
  Re: Scientific Method 329 J L Mazerat 04/05/2022 09:11AM
  Re: Scientific Method 317 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 04/06/2022 06:04PM
  Re: Scientific Method 316 J L Mazerat 04/05/2022 12:21PM
  Re: Scientific Method 277 Fire 04/28/2022 12:00PM
  Re: Scientific Method 298 dcarpenter 04/28/2022 02:35PM
  Re: Scientific Method 282 dcarpenter 04/28/2022 02:37PM
  Re: Scientific Method 279 J L Mazerat 04/29/2022 10:11AM
  Re: Scientific Method 286 Fire 04/29/2022 10:55AM
  Re: Scientific Method 290 dcarpenter 05/02/2022 11:16AM
  Re: Scientific Method 259 J L Mazerat 05/05/2022 08:19AM
  Re: Scientific Method 274 dcarpenter 05/05/2022 09:03AM
  Re: Scientific Method 288 J L Mazerat 05/05/2022 07:07PM
  Re: Scientific Method 272 dcarpenter 05/06/2022 08:42AM
  Re: Scientific Method 267 J L Mazerat 05/06/2022 10:24AM
  Re: Scientific Method 264 dcarpenter 05/06/2022 01:10PM
  Re: Scientific Method 266 J L Mazerat 05/06/2022 03:58PM
  Re: Scientific Method 307 dcarpenter 05/08/2022 12:07PM
  Re: Scientific Method 258 J L Mazerat 05/08/2022 01:17PM
  Re: Scientific Method 262 dcarpenter 05/09/2022 08:09PM
  Re: Scientific Method 301 J L Mazerat 05/10/2022 09:32AM
  Re: Scientific Method 263 dcarpenter 05/10/2022 09:42AM
  Re: Scientific Method 243 dcarpenter 05/10/2022 12:55PM
  Re: Scientific Method 268 J L Mazerat 05/10/2022 03:19PM
  Re: Scientific Method 267 dcarpenter 05/10/2022 03:44PM
  Re: Scientific Method 260 J L Mazerat 05/11/2022 08:17AM
  Re: Scientific Method 256 dcarpenter 05/12/2022 09:39AM
  Re: Scientific Method 251 J L Mazerat 05/12/2022 11:26AM
  Re: Scientific Method 264 dcarpenter 05/12/2022 11:39AM
  Re: Scientific Method 258 J L Mazerat 05/12/2022 07:00PM
  Re: Scientific Method 254 dcarpenter 05/12/2022 07:51PM
  Re: Scientific Method 254 J L Mazerat 05/13/2022 07:33AM
  Re: Scientific Method 265 J L Mazerat 05/10/2022 03:06PM
  Re: Scientific Method 242 dcarpenter 05/10/2022 03:27PM
  Re: Scientific Method 252 J L Mazerat 05/11/2022 08:23AM
  Re: Scientific Method 251 dcarpenter 05/12/2022 10:09AM
  Re: Scientific Method 259 J L Mazerat 05/12/2022 11:33AM
  Re: Scientific Method 247 dcarpenter 05/12/2022 11:42AM
  Re: Scientific Method 262 J L Mazerat 05/12/2022 02:22PM
  Re: Scientific Method 265 SJAvato 06/30/2022 12:09PM
  Re: Scientific Method 244 Fire 07/01/2022 03:05AM
  Re: Scientific Method 256 J L Mazerat 07/01/2022 08:44AM
  Re: Scientific Method 248 dcarpenter 07/01/2022 01:43PM
  Re: Scientific Method 258 dcarpenter 07/01/2022 02:12PM
  Re: Scientific Method 227 dcarpenter 07/01/2022 02:15PM
  Re: Scientific Method 238 SJAvato 07/01/2022 03:39PM
  Re: Scientific Method 249 J L Mazerat 07/02/2022 10:43AM
  Re: Scientific Method 242 dcarpenter 07/05/2022 09:00AM
  Re: Scientific Method 241 SJAvato 07/06/2022 08:19AM
  Re: Scientific Method 236 dcarpenter 07/06/2022 09:17AM
  Re: Scientific Method 246 J L Mazerat 07/06/2022 10:07AM
  Re: Scientific Method 231 dcarpenter 07/06/2022 10:31AM
  Re: Scientific Method 256 J L Mazerat 07/09/2022 07:26PM
  Re: Scientific Method 261 dcarpenter 07/10/2022 03:18PM
  Re: Scientific Method 231 dcarpenter 07/11/2022 08:30AM
  Re: Scientific Method 262 J L Mazerat 07/11/2022 01:09PM
  Re: Scientific Method 232 dcarpenter 07/11/2022 02:57PM
  Re: Scientific Method 251 SJAvato 07/18/2022 01:36PM
  Re: Scientific Method 302 J L Mazerat 07/06/2022 09:55AM
  Re: Scientific Method 231 dcarpenter 07/06/2022 10:40AM
  Re: Scientific Method 230 dcarpenter 07/05/2022 09:36AM
  Re: Scientific Method 224 dcarpenter 07/06/2022 08:50AM
  Re: Scientific Method 236 J L Mazerat 07/02/2022 09:36AM
  Re: Scientific Method 261 dcarpenter 07/07/2022 12:36PM


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.