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Re: Scientific Method
Posted by: dcarpenter (IP Logged)
Date: July 11, 2022 02:57PM

Yes, that is the basis for the definition of Fire Cause in NFPA 921. It is also the basis for the methodology for determining a Fire Cause by the application of the SM. So you are describing the definition and what is generally required for a Fire Cause determination. So, by definition, you can say this had to have happened. It might be of interest to explain to laypersons, but it has no specific value to a specific incident.

In the application of this methodology to a specific incident, you need to replace the generality with the specific. This is the discriminating factor between Inductive and Deductive Reasoning. Your Fire Cause hypothesis and determination has to include the identification of the specific first fuel ignited, the specific competent ignition source for the first fuel ignited, and how the two came together to initiate the fire.

While one can formulate the hypothesis that a first fuel came together with a competent ignition source to initiate the fire, of what value is this hypothesis to the task at hand? Without the identification of the three (3) elements of a Fire Cause, how do you introduce data and evidence from the specific incident by application of the SM? Even if you are saying that you can consider this hypothesis without evidence, can you not say this about every fire incident that involves pre-mixed or diffusion flames? If you are not using evidence associated with this specific event, then how are you using Deductive Reasoning. Seems as if you are actually using Inductive Reasoning without evidence, but, again, what is the value of making such a generalized hypothesis?

Douglas J. Carpenter, MScFPE, CFEI, PE, FSFPE
Vice President & Principal Engineer
Combustion Science & Engineering, Inc.
8940 Old Annapolis Road, Suite L
Columbia, MD 21045
(410) 884-3266
(410) 884-3267 (fax)
www.csefire.com



Subject Views Written By Posted
  Scientific Method 624 rdzimm 04/05/2022 12:11AM
  Re: Scientific Method 398 Rsuninv 04/05/2022 08:39AM
  Re: Scientific Method 342 J L Mazerat 04/05/2022 09:42AM
  Re: Scientific Method 312 dcarpenter 04/26/2022 07:02PM
  Re: Scientific Method 327 J L Mazerat 04/27/2022 08:37AM
  Re: Scientific Method 329 J L Mazerat 04/05/2022 09:11AM
  Re: Scientific Method 318 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 04/06/2022 06:04PM
  Re: Scientific Method 316 J L Mazerat 04/05/2022 12:21PM
  Re: Scientific Method 277 Fire 04/28/2022 12:00PM
  Re: Scientific Method 299 dcarpenter 04/28/2022 02:35PM
  Re: Scientific Method 282 dcarpenter 04/28/2022 02:37PM
  Re: Scientific Method 279 J L Mazerat 04/29/2022 10:11AM
  Re: Scientific Method 286 Fire 04/29/2022 10:55AM
  Re: Scientific Method 290 dcarpenter 05/02/2022 11:16AM
  Re: Scientific Method 260 J L Mazerat 05/05/2022 08:19AM
  Re: Scientific Method 274 dcarpenter 05/05/2022 09:03AM
  Re: Scientific Method 288 J L Mazerat 05/05/2022 07:07PM
  Re: Scientific Method 272 dcarpenter 05/06/2022 08:42AM
  Re: Scientific Method 267 J L Mazerat 05/06/2022 10:24AM
  Re: Scientific Method 264 dcarpenter 05/06/2022 01:10PM
  Re: Scientific Method 266 J L Mazerat 05/06/2022 03:58PM
  Re: Scientific Method 307 dcarpenter 05/08/2022 12:07PM
  Re: Scientific Method 258 J L Mazerat 05/08/2022 01:17PM
  Re: Scientific Method 263 dcarpenter 05/09/2022 08:09PM
  Re: Scientific Method 301 J L Mazerat 05/10/2022 09:32AM
  Re: Scientific Method 263 dcarpenter 05/10/2022 09:42AM
  Re: Scientific Method 243 dcarpenter 05/10/2022 12:55PM
  Re: Scientific Method 268 J L Mazerat 05/10/2022 03:19PM
  Re: Scientific Method 267 dcarpenter 05/10/2022 03:44PM
  Re: Scientific Method 260 J L Mazerat 05/11/2022 08:17AM
  Re: Scientific Method 256 dcarpenter 05/12/2022 09:39AM
  Re: Scientific Method 251 J L Mazerat 05/12/2022 11:26AM
  Re: Scientific Method 264 dcarpenter 05/12/2022 11:39AM
  Re: Scientific Method 258 J L Mazerat 05/12/2022 07:00PM
  Re: Scientific Method 254 dcarpenter 05/12/2022 07:51PM
  Re: Scientific Method 254 J L Mazerat 05/13/2022 07:33AM
  Re: Scientific Method 266 J L Mazerat 05/10/2022 03:06PM
  Re: Scientific Method 242 dcarpenter 05/10/2022 03:27PM
  Re: Scientific Method 252 J L Mazerat 05/11/2022 08:23AM
  Re: Scientific Method 251 dcarpenter 05/12/2022 10:09AM
  Re: Scientific Method 259 J L Mazerat 05/12/2022 11:33AM
  Re: Scientific Method 247 dcarpenter 05/12/2022 11:42AM
  Re: Scientific Method 262 J L Mazerat 05/12/2022 02:22PM
  Re: Scientific Method 265 SJAvato 06/30/2022 12:09PM
  Re: Scientific Method 245 Fire 07/01/2022 03:05AM
  Re: Scientific Method 258 J L Mazerat 07/01/2022 08:44AM
  Re: Scientific Method 248 dcarpenter 07/01/2022 01:43PM
  Re: Scientific Method 259 dcarpenter 07/01/2022 02:12PM
  Re: Scientific Method 228 dcarpenter 07/01/2022 02:15PM
  Re: Scientific Method 239 SJAvato 07/01/2022 03:39PM
  Re: Scientific Method 250 J L Mazerat 07/02/2022 10:43AM
  Re: Scientific Method 242 dcarpenter 07/05/2022 09:00AM
  Re: Scientific Method 241 SJAvato 07/06/2022 08:19AM
  Re: Scientific Method 236 dcarpenter 07/06/2022 09:17AM
  Re: Scientific Method 247 J L Mazerat 07/06/2022 10:07AM
  Re: Scientific Method 232 dcarpenter 07/06/2022 10:31AM
  Re: Scientific Method 257 J L Mazerat 07/09/2022 07:26PM
  Re: Scientific Method 262 dcarpenter 07/10/2022 03:18PM
  Re: Scientific Method 231 dcarpenter 07/11/2022 08:30AM
  Re: Scientific Method 262 J L Mazerat 07/11/2022 01:09PM
  Re: Scientific Method 232 dcarpenter 07/11/2022 02:57PM
  Re: Scientific Method 251 SJAvato 07/18/2022 01:36PM
  Re: Scientific Method 303 J L Mazerat 07/06/2022 09:55AM
  Re: Scientific Method 231 dcarpenter 07/06/2022 10:40AM
  Re: Scientific Method 231 dcarpenter 07/05/2022 09:36AM
  Re: Scientific Method 224 dcarpenter 07/06/2022 08:50AM
  Re: Scientific Method 236 J L Mazerat 07/02/2022 09:36AM
  Re: Scientific Method 261 dcarpenter 07/07/2022 12:36PM


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