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Re: Cause of the Fire
Posted by: dsmith (IP Logged)
Date: July 09, 2006 04:00PM

Jim,

The statement, that the investigator did not need to "eliminate all possible causes", to support his conclusion is correct.

The level of certainty (or confidence) whereas a conclusion is "probable", means that the conclusion is more likely true than not, and is dominat to any other hypotheses (thus the >50%). But such a level of certainty does not exclude other potential hypotheses as being "possible" or "suspected" (i.e otherwise supported, even remotely, by the data). There cannot be two hypotheses with a level of confidence of "probable", yet there can be many that are "possible." A "conclusive" level of certainty is one in which there is only one potential conclusion that is suported by all the facts to the exclusion of all other hypotheses.

Occassionally, the term "possible" is used where the term "potential" is appropriate, because "possible" is a quantifiable or qualifiable term when used as a level of certainty. If the level of certainty is deemed "conclusive" then "all other possible (or potential) causes" automatically eliminated, by virtue of the term "conclusive."

The "conclusive" and "probable" language (I believe) appeared in sec 16.8.2 until the 1995 or 1998 edition of NFPA 921. However, the "probale" wording was reinstated (I beleive) in the 2001 ed.

However, the "elimination of all possible causes" (sic) is not a conclusion that provides any affirmative evidence or support of any other "cause" although this statement is used frequently and erroneously as a pseudo-scientific measure of support by those relying on a negative corpus methodology. The only "evidence" the statement "I eliminated all other causes" provides is that the potential "fire causes" (more specifically, ignition sources) that were considered and examined, were eliminated and thus, they are not the "fire cause." (Furthermore, any ignition sources which were not considered, known or examined cannot be eliminated.)

Denny Smith



Subject Views Written By Posted
  Cause of the Fire 2235 Jim Mazerat 07/08/2006 08:09PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1418 PMK140 07/08/2006 09:11PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1336 dazedandconfused 07/09/2006 01:32AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1291 PMK140 07/09/2006 06:31AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1209 dazedandconfused 07/09/2006 11:51AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1156 Jim Mazerat 07/09/2006 02:49PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1288 dsmith 07/09/2006 04:00PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1211 Jim Mazerat 07/09/2006 05:33PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1149 dsmith 07/10/2006 12:46PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1091 Jim Mazerat 07/10/2006 04:11PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1009 Jimmy Collier 07/11/2006 11:25PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1243 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 07/12/2006 12:47AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1071 PMK140 07/12/2006 07:37AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1087 PMK140 07/12/2006 07:33AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1087 Jim Mazerat 07/12/2006 08:16AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1084 Gerald Hurst 07/12/2006 10:34AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1094 Jim Mazerat 07/12/2006 12:20PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1016 dsmith 07/12/2006 06:27PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1104 Jim Mazerat 07/12/2006 08:51PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1020 dsmith 07/13/2006 03:00PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1045 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 07/13/2006 03:41PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 990 Jim Mazerat 07/13/2006 05:57PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1079 Jim Mazerat 07/13/2006 05:53PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1169 firecop 07/13/2006 03:30PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1045 Jim Mazerat 07/13/2006 06:04PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1131 firecop 07/13/2006 09:23PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 998 PMK140 07/14/2006 06:14AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 980 Jim Mazerat 07/14/2006 08:14AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 987 Jim Mazerat 07/14/2006 01:14PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1091 dsmith 07/13/2006 11:13PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 927 Jim Mazerat 07/14/2006 08:40AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1053 firecop 07/13/2006 11:45PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1246 John J. Lentini, CFEI 07/14/2006 12:44AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 955 Jim Mazerat 07/14/2006 08:02AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire - Rethinking 1047 Gerald Hurst 07/14/2006 09:19AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1089 SJAvato 07/14/2006 10:45AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1050 PMK140 07/14/2006 11:29AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1098 SJAvato 07/14/2006 11:44AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1071 PMK140 07/14/2006 12:02PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1071 Hunter B. (Terry) Lacy 07/16/2006 01:34PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1143 firecop5002 07/14/2006 06:25PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1107 dahebert 07/14/2006 11:37AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1066 PMK140 07/14/2006 12:06PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1065 dahebert 07/14/2006 02:18PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1011 Jimmy Collier 07/17/2006 06:44AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1071 Jim Mazerat 07/17/2006 08:19AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1171 Alitigator 07/20/2006 01:00PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1032 Richard C. Howard CFI,CFEI,K-9 07/20/2006 05:23PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1090 Jim Mazerat 07/21/2006 11:15AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 980 Jim Mazerat 07/21/2006 02:38PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1049 Alitigator 07/21/2006 03:33PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1022 Jim Mazerat 07/21/2006 04:54PM


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