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Re: Cause of the Fire
Posted by: dsmith (IP Logged)
Date: July 13, 2006 11:13PM

The answer is "no." You only classify the "fire cause" and you can only classify the cause if you have a conclusion with a "probable" level of certainty. You cannot classify a "cause" (or support any conclusion on any matter, such as the nature of burn patterns) if your hypothesis is only "possible" (or the conclusion is supported to a possibilty.) You can all the possibilities in the world, with varying degress of certainty, but until you have one hypothesis that is more likely than not, and thus, dominant to other hypotheses, the conclusion is not supported or supportable. When referring to the fire cause classification, the classification is "unkonwn." That is specifically what the sentence initially in the "undetermined" section of NFPA 921, and more recently in each of the cause classification sections is addressing when it refers to "an acceptable level of certainty." Without an acceptable level of certainty (e.g. probale) the fire cause can only be classified "undetermined."

According to NFPA 921, a fire cause has three elements that all must be identified in order for any "cause" to be classified as "accidental" "incendairy" or "natural", basically anything other than "undetermined." The heat (or ignition) source, the first fuel and the ignition sequence (the conditions or circumstances that allowed the heat source and the first fuel get together) are all elements of the "fire cause." (Many investigators still refer to the ignition source as "the cause. It's important for discussing the fire cause, as referred to in NFPA 921, that the distinction be known.) Ultimately, it is the identification of the ignition sequence that allow a fire cause to be classifed.

The terms "accidental" and "incendairy" are classifications of a "fire cause." A heat source cannot be "accidental." A fuel cannot be "accidental." (Bob, I might be misunderstanding you, but that seems like what you were asking or implying).

Now, there may be times when an investigator can identify some of the elements of the cause and still have the "cause" classified undetermined. You may be able identify the heat source, identify the first fuel but NOT know or be able to prove the igniton sequence. In such circumstances, the only apporpriate cause classification of "the cause" is "undetermined." For example, materials stored too close to a heating appliance or a grease fire on a stove might lend themselves to such circumstances. Take the grease fire on a stove.

The heat source is known (heating element), the first fuel is known (oil or grease) but the ignition source (the circumstances in which the grease was left to ignite) is unknown. If the physical evidence cannot establish whether the circumstances were deliberate or non-deliberate the "igntion sequence" is considered "unknown", and thus cannot be proven "to an acceptable level of certainty." Thus, according to NFPA 921, the cause can only be classified "undetermined."

Denny Smith



Subject Views Written By Posted
  Cause of the Fire 2235 Jim Mazerat 07/08/2006 08:09PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1418 PMK140 07/08/2006 09:11PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1336 dazedandconfused 07/09/2006 01:32AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1291 PMK140 07/09/2006 06:31AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1209 dazedandconfused 07/09/2006 11:51AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1155 Jim Mazerat 07/09/2006 02:49PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1288 dsmith 07/09/2006 04:00PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1211 Jim Mazerat 07/09/2006 05:33PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1149 dsmith 07/10/2006 12:46PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1091 Jim Mazerat 07/10/2006 04:11PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1009 Jimmy Collier 07/11/2006 11:25PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1243 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 07/12/2006 12:47AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1071 PMK140 07/12/2006 07:37AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1087 PMK140 07/12/2006 07:33AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1087 Jim Mazerat 07/12/2006 08:16AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1084 Gerald Hurst 07/12/2006 10:34AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1094 Jim Mazerat 07/12/2006 12:20PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1016 dsmith 07/12/2006 06:27PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1104 Jim Mazerat 07/12/2006 08:51PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1020 dsmith 07/13/2006 03:00PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1045 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 07/13/2006 03:41PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 990 Jim Mazerat 07/13/2006 05:57PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1079 Jim Mazerat 07/13/2006 05:53PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1169 firecop 07/13/2006 03:30PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1045 Jim Mazerat 07/13/2006 06:04PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1131 firecop 07/13/2006 09:23PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 998 PMK140 07/14/2006 06:14AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 980 Jim Mazerat 07/14/2006 08:14AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 986 Jim Mazerat 07/14/2006 01:14PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1090 dsmith 07/13/2006 11:13PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 927 Jim Mazerat 07/14/2006 08:40AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1052 firecop 07/13/2006 11:45PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1246 John J. Lentini, CFEI 07/14/2006 12:44AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 955 Jim Mazerat 07/14/2006 08:02AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire - Rethinking 1047 Gerald Hurst 07/14/2006 09:19AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1089 SJAvato 07/14/2006 10:45AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1050 PMK140 07/14/2006 11:29AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1097 SJAvato 07/14/2006 11:44AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1070 PMK140 07/14/2006 12:02PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1071 Hunter B. (Terry) Lacy 07/16/2006 01:34PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1143 firecop5002 07/14/2006 06:25PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1107 dahebert 07/14/2006 11:37AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1066 PMK140 07/14/2006 12:06PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1065 dahebert 07/14/2006 02:18PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1011 Jimmy Collier 07/17/2006 06:44AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1071 Jim Mazerat 07/17/2006 08:19AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1171 Alitigator 07/20/2006 01:00PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1032 Richard C. Howard CFI,CFEI,K-9 07/20/2006 05:23PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1090 Jim Mazerat 07/21/2006 11:15AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 980 Jim Mazerat 07/21/2006 02:38PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1049 Alitigator 07/21/2006 03:33PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1022 Jim Mazerat 07/21/2006 04:54PM


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