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Re: Cause of the Fire
Posted by: Alitigator (IP Logged)
Date: July 20, 2006 01:00PM

Hi folks,

I'm an arson litigator from way back (pre-921 days) and have some recent criminal arson experience. I thought I'd add my two cents to your discussion regarding what is, to me at least, a question of circumstantial evidence and a confusion between standards and expert opinion testimony.

First of all, whatever it says, 921 is nothing more than a standard. We use lots of standards with expert witnesses in courtroom testimony--ASTM, OSHA, engineering and architectural, medical texts and treatises. You're all probably familiar with Daubert standards. In the 921 context, that means, in my opinion anyway, that a fire analysis which conforms with 921 will in all probability meet the Daubert standard and be allowed to go to the jury. This is true even if the standard remains "probable" rather than what we lawyers call "exclusionary," i.e., excluding every other reasonable hypothesis.

In either case, the jury is the factfinder. It is allowed to use your opinion, including your assesment of "probability," as one of the factors to decide the case, along with motive, financial circumstances (if applicable), presence of ignitable liquids, fire load, and all the other pieces of evidence usually amassed in an arson case.

Second, I'd be concerned about trying to define terms you use in your profession to fit terms that are used in mine. I can certainly understand all of your concerns regarding wrongful convictions based on "probabilities," and that is legitimate. But in trying to tailor your standards to some other guidepost (i.e., legal sufficiency of the evidence), you're getting outside your field a little bit. Your assignment is to find and interpret evidence and render the best opinion you can based on the standards provided by the NFPA. Whether that opinion -- and with the best will in the world, that's all it will ever be -- can be one part of the proof in a given case depends on, first, its conformity with legal requirements, and second, whether it "fits" with the other evidence in the case.

I won 10 straight civil arson cases (actually tried) in Louisiana, all before 921, with varying degrees of expert witness support. In every one of those cases, the other evidence, usually of financial motive, was the key to success. One guy had been a "victim" of seven fires in three years, four in which he held the mortgage on a "friend's" house. I could have won that one without producing an expert.

The reason I've joined this discussion is because, as a trial lawyer, it is important to me that my witnesses adhere to real standards, such as 921, and be discouraged from simply giving lip service to 921 in order to support a conclusion they reached before ever starting an investigation. The legal system does a lot of things well, but it's a blunt tool when it comes to making black and white decisions. Individual biases will always be there.

Hope this helps clarify things.

Jim Doyle.



Subject Views Written By Posted
  Cause of the Fire 2235 Jim Mazerat 07/08/2006 08:09PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1418 PMK140 07/08/2006 09:11PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1336 dazedandconfused 07/09/2006 01:32AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1291 PMK140 07/09/2006 06:31AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1208 dazedandconfused 07/09/2006 11:51AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1155 Jim Mazerat 07/09/2006 02:49PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1288 dsmith 07/09/2006 04:00PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1210 Jim Mazerat 07/09/2006 05:33PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1148 dsmith 07/10/2006 12:46PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1089 Jim Mazerat 07/10/2006 04:11PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1009 Jimmy Collier 07/11/2006 11:25PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1242 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 07/12/2006 12:47AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1071 PMK140 07/12/2006 07:37AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1086 PMK140 07/12/2006 07:33AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1086 Jim Mazerat 07/12/2006 08:16AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1083 Gerald Hurst 07/12/2006 10:34AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1093 Jim Mazerat 07/12/2006 12:20PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1015 dsmith 07/12/2006 06:27PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1103 Jim Mazerat 07/12/2006 08:51PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1019 dsmith 07/13/2006 03:00PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1044 Chris Bloom, CJBFireConsultant 07/13/2006 03:41PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 990 Jim Mazerat 07/13/2006 05:57PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1079 Jim Mazerat 07/13/2006 05:53PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1168 firecop 07/13/2006 03:30PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1044 Jim Mazerat 07/13/2006 06:04PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1131 firecop 07/13/2006 09:23PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 998 PMK140 07/14/2006 06:14AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 980 Jim Mazerat 07/14/2006 08:14AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 986 Jim Mazerat 07/14/2006 01:14PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1090 dsmith 07/13/2006 11:13PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 926 Jim Mazerat 07/14/2006 08:40AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1052 firecop 07/13/2006 11:45PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1245 John J. Lentini, CFEI 07/14/2006 12:44AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 954 Jim Mazerat 07/14/2006 08:02AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire - Rethinking 1046 Gerald Hurst 07/14/2006 09:19AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1087 SJAvato 07/14/2006 10:45AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1049 PMK140 07/14/2006 11:29AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1096 SJAvato 07/14/2006 11:44AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1069 PMK140 07/14/2006 12:02PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1070 Hunter B. (Terry) Lacy 07/16/2006 01:34PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1143 firecop5002 07/14/2006 06:25PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1107 dahebert 07/14/2006 11:37AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1065 PMK140 07/14/2006 12:06PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1064 dahebert 07/14/2006 02:18PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1011 Jimmy Collier 07/17/2006 06:44AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1070 Jim Mazerat 07/17/2006 08:19AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1169 Alitigator 07/20/2006 01:00PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1030 Richard C. Howard CFI,CFEI,K-9 07/20/2006 05:23PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1089 Jim Mazerat 07/21/2006 11:15AM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 979 Jim Mazerat 07/21/2006 02:38PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1047 Alitigator 07/21/2006 03:33PM
  Re: Cause of the Fire 1020 Jim Mazerat 07/21/2006 04:54PM


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